最威望实录!刘欣VS翠西电视辩论中英双语全文
来源:下线网 发表于2019-07-02 09:27:21 编辑:金庸
摘要: Trish Regan:Tonight, I have a special guest joining me all the way from Beijing, China to discuss the challenges of trade between the US and her home country. Shes the host of a primetime English langu

Trish Regan:Tonight, I have a special guest joining me all the way from Beijing, China to discuss the challenges of trade between the US and her home country.

Shes the host of a primetime English language television programme overseen by the CCP, the Chinese Communist Party. And though she and I may not agree on everything, I believe this is actually a really unique opportunity, an opportunity to hear a very different view.

As these trade negotiations stall out, its helpful to know how the Chinese communist party is thinking about trade and about the United States. In the interests of transparency, I should explain that I dont speak for anyone but myself as the host of a Fox Business show. My guest however is part of the CCP and thats fine. As I said, I welcome different perspectives on this show.

Im very pleased tonight to welcome Ms. Liu Xin, host of the primetime opinion programme The Point with Liu Xin, to Trish Regan Primetime, tonight. To the viewers, please bear with us, as we have a significant time delay in our satellites between Beijing and the US and because of that were going to do our very best not to speak over each other but Xin, welcome, its good to have you here.

翠西·里根:今日晚上我有一位特其他嘉宾,她是来自于我国北京,跟咱们聊一聊美国和她的国家我国之间的交易应战。

她是我国一档黄金时段英语电视节目的主持人,该节目由我国**党监督。我知道咱们不行能在一切问题上持相同定见,但我以为这是一个十分好的时机,让咱们能够听到十分不相同的声响。

现在交易商洽堕入僵局,所以能够有时机了解我国**党对交易的观念和对美国的观念,将是十分有意义的。为了通明起见,我要解释一下,我不代表任何人,我只代表我自己,我的身份是福克斯电视台的节目主持人。咱们这期节目的嘉宾则是我国**党的一员,可是不要紧。如我之前所说,我欢迎不同的观念、不同的视角。

那咱们欢迎刘欣,她是黄金时段节目主持人,《欣视点》节目的主持人来到《翠西·里根黄金档》节目。由于我国和美国卫星信号衔接有一些推迟,所以期望咱们不会呈现声响堆叠或把对方的声响盖住。刘欣,欢迎你,十分快乐你来到我的节目。

Liu Xin:Thank you Trish, thank you for having me, it’s a great opportunity for me, unprecedented, I never dreamed that I would have this kind of opportunity to speak to you and to speak to many audiences in ordinary households in the United States.

I have to get it straight, I am not a member of the Communist Party of China (CPC), this is on the record. So please don’t assume that I’m a member, and I don’t speak for the Communist Party of China, here today Im only speaking for myself, as Liu Xin, a journalist working for CGTN.

刘欣:谢谢你,翠西,十分感谢约请我来到你的节目。今日是一个史无前例的时机,我之前从未想过能有这样的时机跟你直接进行沟通,跟美国的广大观众进行沟通。

我有必要阐明一下,我还不是我国**党党员,这点是有档案可查的,请不要先入为主地以为我是一个党员。我不代表我国**党的情绪,我只代表我个人,刘欣,是CGTN的主播。

Trish Regan:What is your current assessment of where the trade talks actually are? Do you believe a deal is possible?

翠西·里根:你觉得中美交易商洽现在处在一个什么阶段?你是否信赖咱们会达到一个协议?

Liu Xin:?I don’t have any insider information. What I know is the talks were not very successful last time, they were going on in the United States and now I think both sides are considering where to go next.

But I think the Chinese government has made its position very clear, that unless the United States treat the Chinese government, treat the Chinese negotiating team with respect and show the willingness to talk without using outside pressure, there is high possibility that there could be a productive trade deal. Otherwise we might be facing a prolonged period of problems for both sides.

刘欣:我没有什么内幕消息,只知道上一轮商洽不是很顺畅,其时是在美国谈的。现在两边都在考虑未来行进的方向。

我国政府现已把情绪说得很清楚了,只需美方用公平的情绪对待我国政府和中方的商洽团队,拿出商洽的诚心,不施加外部压力,仍是很有期望达到一个好的效果的;不然两边都会面对一个长时间的僵局。

Trish Regan:I would stress that trade wars are never good. Theyre not good for anyone. So I want to believe that something can get done (LX: Agreed). These are certainly challenging times, I realise theres a lot of rhetoric out there. But let me turn to one of the biggest issues and thats intellectual property rights. Fundamentally, I think we can all agree its never right to take something thats not yours. And yet in going through so many of these cases, cases that the independent World Trade Organisation, the WTO, that China is a member of, as well as the DOJ and FBI cases – you can actually see some of them on the screen right now – theres evidence there that China has stolen enormous amounts of intellectual property. Hundreds of billions of dollars’ worth. Thats a lot of money.

But I guess we shouldnt really care if its hundreds of billions of dollars or just 50 cents. How do American businesses operate in China if theyre at risk for having their property, their ideas, their hard work stolen?

翠西·里根:我想着重的是,交易战向来都不是功德,对谁都没有任何优点。所以我乐意信赖咱们是会达到一些效果的

(刘欣:赞同)。这无疑是一个充溢应战的年代,我也看到有许多的言辞。那让我来发问一个其间最主要的问题,便是知识产权问题。从根本上说,咱们都以为,假如不是你的东西,你拿走是不对的。可是咱们看到有许多这样的事例,比方像WTO这样独立的国际组织,我国也是WTO的成员,还有美国司法部和联邦调查局,都发布过此类事例,你现在能够从咱们屏幕上面看到列出了其间一些这样的事例。这些都是依据,显现我国盗取了美国许多的知识产权,价值数千亿美元。数额巨大。

但咱们应该真实关怀的不是上亿仍是说几毛钱,而是:假如在我国经商的美国企业面对着它们的知识产权、构思、辛勤劳动的效果被盗取的危险,它们还如安在我国经商?

Liu Xin:You have to ask American businesses whether they wanted to come to China, whether they find coming to China and cooperating with Chinese businesses (has not been) profitable or not, and they will tell you their answers. As far as I understand many American companies have been established in China, they’re very profitable and the great majority of them I believe plan to continue to invest in China and explore the Chinese market. U.S. President Donald Trump’s tariff makes it a little bit more difficult, makes the future a little uncertain.

I do not deny that there are IP infringements, there are copyright issues or there are piracy or even theft of commercial secrets. I think that is something that has to be dealt with, and I think the Chinese government, the Chinese people and me as an individual, I think there’s a consensus because without the protection of IP rights, nobody, no country, no individual can be stronger, can develop itself. I think that is a very clear consensus among Chinese society.

And of course there are cases where individuals, where companies go and steal, and I think that’s a common practice probably in every part of the world, and there are companies in the United States who sue each other all the time over infringement on IP rights. You can’t say, simply because these cases are happening, that America is stealing, or China is stealing, or the Chinese people are stealing. And basically that’s the reason why I wrote that rebuttal, because that kind of blanket statement is really not helpful, really not helpful.

刘欣:你得问美国的企业了,它们想不想来我国,它们在我国经商、与我国企业协作是否有利可图,美国企业会通知你他们的答案。据我所知,大部分在我国经商的美国企业的赢利都是十分丰盛的,绝大部分决议持续在我国出资,不断开辟我国商场。可是美国总统特朗普的关税方针使这种方案变得困难,也让未来变得愈加不确定。

我不否定有侵略知识产权的状况,有版权问题、盗版问题乃至商业秘要被盗取的问题。我以为这是有必要要处理的问题,而我国政府、我国人民,包含我自己作为一个个别,都有一个一致,便是:没有知识产权的维护,任何一个国家、任何一个人,都无法开展强大。所以说这个是咱们全社会的一个一致。

当然,是有一些个人或许公司去盗取的状况,这个我觉得也不只仅在我国,在全国际都很遍及,美国公司也有这样的状况,由于知识产权侵权而打官司。你不能仅仅由于这些事例就说美国在偷盗,或许我国、我国人民在偷盗。这也是我为什么之前做出那样的回应,由于这样抽象的责备无益于问题的处理。

Trish Regan:Its not just a statement, its multiple reports, including evidence from the WTO. But let me ask you about Huawei because thats certainly in the headlines now…

I think we can all agree that if youre going to do business with someone, it has to be based on trust. You dont want anyone stealing your valuable information that youve spent decades working on. Anyway, China passed a law in 2017 requiring tech companies to work with the military and the government, so its not just individual companies that might be getting access to this technology, its the government itself, which is an interesting nuance. But I get that China is upset that Huawei is not being welcomed into the US markets, I totally get it, so let me just ask you this. It’s an interesting way to think about it. What if we said, hey sure, Huawei, come on in, but heres the deal, you must share all those incredible technological advances that youve been working on, youve got to share it with us, would that be ok?

翠西·里根:这不是我的说辞,而是有许多相关陈述的,包含WTO也有这样的依据。咱们现在来谈谈华为的问题,这是一个热点论题。

咱们其实都会赞同,假如咱们想跟他人经商,有必要依据互信。你不期望在经商的时分,他人把你研讨了几十年的很有价值的东西偷走。我国从2017年开端授权科技企业与军方和政府协作

(译注:翠西此处应该是指中心军民交融开展委员会成立于2017年1月22日),这就意味着不只仅仅一个公司行为,而是政府行为了,这两者之间是有稍稍差异的。但据我所知,华为不能进入美国商场,我国觉得不太快乐,这我也能够了解。但我换种方法来问吧,这么问或许更风趣,比方 “华为,来咱们美国商场吧。但咱们先约法三章:你有必要跟咱们共享你们所取得的那些巨大的科技成就”,这种方法,你觉得能够吗?

Liu Xin:I think if it is through cooperation, if it is through mutual learning, if you pay for the use of this IP or high technology, it’s absolutely fine, why not? We all prosper because we learn from each other, I learnt English because I had American teachers, I learnt English because I had American friends, I still learn how to do journalism because I have American copy editors or editors. I think that’s fine so long as it’s not illegal, I think everybody should do that and that’s how you get better.

刘欣:假如经过协作的结构,互相学习,假如你支付了知识产权的费用,我觉得是能够的。为什么不呢?咱们互相学习才干一起进步。我自己也学英语,由于我有美国教师,我有美国的朋友,一起我做新闻,我的修改、搭档许多都是美国人。只需不是违法的工作,都是能够做的,咱们都应该这么做,才干够不断让自己做得更好。

Trish Regan:You mentioned something pretty important, which is that you should pay for the acquisition of that (IP). I think that the liberalized economic world in which we live has valued intellectual property and its governed by a set of laws. So we all need to play by the rules and play by those laws if were going to have that kind of trust between each other. But I think you bring up some good points. Let me turn to China right now which is, wow, the second largest economy. At what point will China decide to abandon its developing nation status and stop borrowing from the World Bank?

翠西·里根:你说的有一点十分重要,便是你要取得这些

(知识产权),你就得付费。我觉得咱们日子在一个经济自由化的国际,咱们向来都很注重知识产权的维护,而且知识产权是遭到一整套法令维护的。假如咱们想要达到对互相的互信的话,咱们都需求依据规矩和法令行事。我现在换个论题吧,我国现已是国际第二大经济体,你觉得什么时分我国会中止称自己为开展我国家,会不再向国际银行借钱?

Liu Xin:Well I think this kind of discussion is going on, and I’ve heard very live discussions about this. And indeed there are people talking about China becoming so big, why don’t you just grow up? Basically I think you said it in your program as well, “China, grow up!” I think we want to grow up, we don’t want to be dwarfed or poor, underdeveloped all the time. But it depends on how you define developing country. If you look at China’s overall size, the overall size of the Chinese economy, yes, we are very big. But don’t forget we have 1.4 billion people, that is over three times the population of the United States. So if you divide the second largest overall economy in the world, basically when it comes down to per capita GDP we are less than one sixth of that of the United States, and even less than some other more developed countries in Europe.

So you tell me where we should put ourselves. This is a very complicated issue, because per capita as I said is very small, but overall it’s very big. So we can do a lot of big things, and people are looking upon us to do much more around the world. I think we are doing that, we are contributing to the United Nations. We are the worlds biggest contributor to the UN peacekeeping missions (among the five permanent members of the UN), we are giving out donations and humanitarian aid and all of that because we know we have to grow up. And Trish, thank you for that reminder.

刘欣:我觉得这种谈论,也在进行之中,我听到了许多现场的谈论,确实,有人说我国现已成为一个大国,为什么不能像一个成人相同长大。基本上你也在你的节目中,也说到,说我国要长大,咱们确实也想要变的强壮,咱们不想要一直是一个微小、赤贫、欠发达的国家,但这也要取决于你怎样界说开展我国家,对吗?假如你看我国全体的经济体量,确实是体量十分大,可是你不要忘了,咱们有14亿人口,这个是美国的三倍之多。尽管我国是国际第二大经济体,可是假如按人均GDP来算的话,大概是美国人均GDP的六分之一。与某些欧洲发达国家比较,乃至会更少。

那你通知我,咱们该怎样定位自己呢?这是一个十分复杂的问题,由于像我所说的人均的数值很小的,可是整体的体量又很大,咱们能够做一些大事,人们也寄期望于我国,在全球有更多的奉献。咱们确实也在这么做,咱们为联合国做出了许多的奉献,咱们是联合国

(五个常任理事国中)维和举动最大的奉献方,咱们给了捐献、给了人道主义帮助等等。我知道咱们要持续强大。翠西感谢你,你提示的这一点十分好。

Trish Regan:Lets get to the tariffs. Ive seen some of your commentaries too. And Xin, I appreciate that you think China could lower some of its tariffs. I watched you say that and Im totally in agreement with you. In 2016, the average tariff, effectively a tax, that was charged on an American good in China was 9.9%. That was nearly three times what the US was charging. So what do you say about this, what do you think about saying \"hey, to heck with these tariffs, lets get rid of them altogether.\" Would that work?

翠西·里根:那咱们来谈谈关税的问题,我也看了你之前的一些谈论。刘欣,我也很感谢,你说我国能够下降一些关税,我看到你说了这个话,我完全赞同你这个观念,2016年加征在美国产品上的均匀关税,是9.9%,比美国加征在我国身上的高三倍。你觉得这个关税该怎样处理?假如我主张说“要不咱们采纳一致举动,一致下降关税”,你觉得这可行吗?

Liu Xin:I think that would be a wonderful idea. Don’t you think for American consumers, products from China would be even cheaper? And for consumers in China, products from America would be so much cheaper too? I think that would be a wonderful idea, I think we should work towards that. But you talked about rule-based system, rule-based order. This is the thing, if you want to change the rules it has to be done in mutual consensus, basically when we talk about tariffs it’s not just between China and the United States. I understand if you lower tariffs just between China and the United States the Europeans will come, the Japanese will come, the Venezuelans will probably come and say hey, we want the same tariffs. You can’t discriminate between countries. So it’s a very complicated settlement to reach. I think the last time the world agreed on the kind of tariff reduction China should commit to, was exactly the result of multilateral and years of difficult negotiations. The United States saw, in its interests, and decided to what degree they could agree, or to what degree they could lower their tariffnobody put a gun to their headand China agreed, although with some difficulty, to lower their, our, tariff considerably, it is all the decision of countries according to their own self-interest. Now things are different, yes, I agree, 20 years later, what are we going to do? Maybe these old rules need to be changed. You know what, let’s talk about it, let’s do it according to the rules, the same rules, but if you don’t like the rules, well change the rules, but it has to be a multilateral process.

刘欣:我觉得这是一个很好的主意。你不觉得这关于美国顾客来说,他们能够享用愈加实惠的我国产品?关于我国的顾客来说美国的产品也会变的实惠?这是咱们一起努力的方向。你说到一个依据规矩的一个系统,或许是一个依据规矩的次序,所以说,假如要改动规矩的话,就有必要两边先达到一致。您谈到关税的问题,不光是中美之间的问题。假如你下降中美之间的关税,那欧洲会来、日本也会来、委内瑞拉也会来,相同要求下降关税,你不能差异对待,所以要达到这个协议,是十分复杂的。对,我是说关于交易的问题,关于关税的,我以为上一次全球达到关于下降关税的定见,中方也做出了许诺,这便是多边主义和长时间困难商洽的效果。美国看到自己的利益,决议他们要下降到什么程度,下降多少,没人拿抢指着他们的脑袋。我国尽管遇到了一些困难,那咱们也大幅下降了咱们的关税,这都是各国依据本身利益做出的决议。现在大环境变了,我赞同,20年过去了,咱们现在要怎样做,有一些规矩是需求改动的。你知道吗?那咱们就聊聊这些规矩,咱们能够依照相同的规矩行事,假如你不喜欢一些规矩,那咱们就改动它,可是我说的是这有必要是多方达到的一起决议。

Trish Regan:There are rules. You can go back to the trade agreement of 1974, section 301, there is a rule that enables the United States to use tariffs to try and influence the behavior of China, should it be taking, stealing our intellectual property. And that, I think in some ways, is part of what this all comes back to and its a sense of trust. I hear you on the forced technology transfer and I think that some American companies perhaps have made some mistakes in terms of being willing to overlook what they might have to give up in the near term, but this an issue where the country as a whole needs to step in. And were seeing the United States do that, perhaps in a way that hasnt happened. Its been in the background, dont get me wrong. I think previous administrations have identified the challenge but have really been a little unwilling to take it on so were living in these very different times. How do you define state capitalism?

翠西·里根:那咱们回到1974年《交易法》301条款,《交易法》301条款中,有规矩授权美国能够用关税去约束我国的行为,假如我国拿走或盗取知识产权的话。某种程度来说,这是工作的根源,是关于信赖的问题。你谈到逼迫技术转让,一些美国公司或许做了过错的决议,乐意依照我国的要求,抛弃一些东西。这个问题要从国家的视点介入。咱们看到美国现已做出一些行动,而且是以一种史无前例的方法在做。现在实情便是如此,请不要误解为我的个人主意。我想说之前的政府看到了这样一些应战,可是他们没有想要处理的志愿,现在来讲年代变了。你怎样界说国家资本主义?

Liu Xin:You mean how do I define…? Sorry I didn’t hear the last bit, you mean the forced technology transfer, or so-called forced technology transfer?

刘欣:我没有听清,您能再说一遍吗?想要界说什么?我听到你说逼迫技术转让。

Trish Regan:No, state capitalism. I talked about forced technology transfer, but state capitalism.

翠西·里根:不,国家资本主义。之前是谈到过逼迫技术转让,但现在说的是国家资本主义。

Liu Xin:Because you started with the forced technology transfer and somehow you skit away.

刘欣:你之前谈逼迫技术转让,怎样忽然跳到了其他主题?

Trish Regan:Hang on one second, Xin. Your system of economics is very interesting because you have a capitalist system but its state-run, so talk to us about that, how do you define it?

翠西·里根:等一下刘欣,你让我说完,你们的经济系统,是挺有意思的,你们有一个资本主义的系统,可是受国家操控的。跟咱们聊一聊这方面,你是怎样界说的?

Liu Xin:We would like to define it as socialism with Chinese characteristics, where market forces are expected to play the dominating or the deciding role in the allocation of resources. Basically, we want it to be a market economy but there are some Chinese characteristics, for instance some state owned enterprises which are playing an important but increasingly smaller role, maybe, in the economy. And everybody thinks that Chinas economy is state-owned, everything is state-controlled, everything is state, state, state, but let me tell you, it is not the true picture. If you look at the statistics, for instance 80% of Chinese employees were employed by private enterprises, 80% of Chinese exports were done by private companies, 65% of technological innovation were achieved, carried out, by private enterprises, some of the largest companies that affect our lives, for instance some Internet companies or some 5G technology companies, they are private companies. So we are, yes, a socialist economy with Chinese characteristics, but not everything is state-controlled, state-run, it’s not like that, we are actually quite mixed, very dynamic and actually very very open as well.

刘欣:咱们界说是我国特色社会主义商场经济,商场力气依然是占主导力气,它在资源分配上,起决议性效果。它本身是商场经济,可是会有我国特色。比方说有一些国有企业,在经济中,起到十分重要的,可是相对越来越小的效果。咱们都会觉得我国的经济,一切都是国家操控,一切都是国家、国家、国家,但现实却并不是如此,你假如看一下数字,80%我国雇员都是受雇于民营企业的,也有80%的出口来自于民营企业。65%的立异是源于民营企业。许多对人们日常日子影响巨大的公司,比方说一些网络公司、5G公司,都是私营企业。咱们确实是我国特色社会主义商场经济,但不是一切的东西都是由国家操控,咱们其实是一个十分混合、十分活泼、十分敞开的经济体。

Trish Regan:I think you need to probably keep being open. I think that that, as a free trade person myself, I think that thats the direction to pursue and ultimately that leads to greater economic prosperity for you and better economic prosperity for us, so then you get a win-win. This was interesting, I appreciate you being here. Thank you.

翠西·里根:我觉得你们或许期望能够持续这样敞开,由于我个人是自由交易支持者,我以为这是正确的方向。终究咱们期望我国更昌盛,美国也更昌盛,这样的话咱们才干双赢。我觉得咱们的对话很风趣,十分感谢你。

Liu Xin:Thank you, thank you so much. If you want to have a discussion in the future, we can do that.

刘欣:谢谢,十分感谢!假如未来还想谈论的话,咱们也能够持续。

Trish Regan:Id love it.

翠西·里根:我是十分期望的。

Liu Xin:If you want to come to China, youre welcome and Ill take you around. Thank you Trish for the opportunity.

刘欣:乐意来我国的话,咱们也十分欢迎,感谢!

Trish Regan:Thank you.

翠西·里根:十分感谢。

 

最威望实录!刘欣VS翠西电视辩论中英双语全文

 

最威望实录!刘欣VS翠西电视辩论中英双语全文

 

最威望实录!刘欣VS翠西电视辩论中英双语全文

 

最威望实录!刘欣VS翠西电视辩论中英双语全文

 

最威望实录!刘欣VS翠西电视辩论中英双语全文

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